1. Can you talk about your own background and work?

I went to Taiwan in 2011. In 2016, I graduated from Taipei National University of the Arts (TNUA), Filmmaking Department, majoring in editing under technical division. At that time, the courses in TNUA can be divided into three divisions: technical, arts and performing arts. There are three categories under the technical division: cinematography, editing and sound. Our lecturers treated us like their own children in our journey of creating. They are director Toon Wang, professor Daw-Ming Lee, cinematographer Chan Chang, editor Hsiao-Tung Chen, etc. Especially the one who guided, encouraged, and inspired me a lot throughout the journey, my life mentor, Mr. Liao Ching-Song. I have had my university internship program under director Mr Lau Kek Huat for around six months. After graduating, I continued my career in Taipei Modern Cinema and went back to Malaysia in 2017. Most of the time in Taiwan, I was involved in the production of student’s short films, “The Flame” was my last editing work in Taiwan.

It was a new start for me when I came back to Malaysia. I worked as a continuity supervisor, assistant director, and editor in different productions from 2017 to 2019. However, I faced some difficulty in getting an editing project as I was a freelancer and newcomer in this industry. I met with my senior Lim Kean Hian shortly after I came back. A couple of months later, he produced a film, “Never was the Shade” using his savings. He invited me to join his production as a continuity supervisor and editor. We finished this short film within a limited budget in a short period. This short film won the BMW Shorties Grand Prize in 2017 and I won the best editor award. Next, we used the winner's award money from BMW Shorties to produce our next short film, “Langit Budak Biru”. This short film brought us to the Taipei Golden Horse Film Festival because it was nominated for the category of best short film. It was a film festival where I used to spend a lot of money and time watching movies every year when I was a student. I was so touched to have the opportunity to sit at the awards ceremony instead of watching the live broadcast. I was also very emotional when I reunited with my lecturers there.

Before I came back to Malaysia, some of my local friends told me there is a big difference between the environment in Malaysia and Taiwan. My thought was very simple: Malaysia is my hometown, the place I grew up. Therefore, I think it was time for me to go back to a certain level. At that time, I reckoned that joining the set was the fastest way to understand more about the industry. If the process is suffering, I will just perceive it as a way of learning. However, I met a lot of interesting people and even made many non-Chinese friends. Shooting is about suffering and happiness. It feels excellent whenever the wrap-up moment. Now I am still enjoying every moment on the set.

2. What made you say “Yes” to be the editor for this movie?

It is just because she is Tan Chui Mui! Ha-ha. I watched “Year Without a Summer” in the cinema many years ago. At that time, I was still in middle school, I didn't understand the story well as the film used a narrative technique that I had never seen before. After returning to Malaysia, apart from working on Kean Hian's films and as an assistant editor in "The Garden of Evening Mists". I spent most of the time as an editor in some travel shows, music videos, and variety shows. The more I cut, the more I felt doubt in my life. Because after a while… when I needed to face the challenging materials which required effort to digest, I realized that I had turned into an editing machine. I had lost patience with all the footage. My aim was just to complete the deliverable as soon as possible. That would be dangerous for me as an editor.

Therefore, I wondered if I could use other ways to sustain livelihoods. At the end of 2019, I stopped my editing work and worked as a colourist recommended by a director friend for the next six months. One night, I received a message from a producer friend. She told me Mui was looking for an editor and she had recommended me. I have no reason to say no as I got the opportunity to work with a new director. Of course, the answer is a Yes! The next day, I returned to my company and discussed it with my supervisor. After settling down in the company, I resigned. At that time, my supervisor asked me, "Didn’t you say you don’t want to edit films anymore?" I just smiled and I was embarrassed to answer his question. If I didn't receive the message from my friend that night, I think I should still be working as a colourist now.

A few days later, Mui took the initiative to contact me, and we met that night. She gave me the script. After I read the script, I liked it so much. Therefore, I started editing again.

3. As an editor, how did you work together with the director?

Barbarian Invasion's editing works can be divided into two parts, on set and post-production. I was involved in daily rough cases before. The staff usually accumulate many pieces of footage before giving it to the editor to work in a fixed location and upload the first assembly cut to the director. The advantage for this is saving the editor’s travel time, but it will take time to deliver the materials, and the director also needs a stable network to download it and view. Mui only had a minimal crew. Therefore, I almost followed on set every day to edit soon after it was shoot. So, whenever the director had time, she could watch the assembly cut, and we could communicate and solve the problems directly.

Since Barbarian Invasion has many outdoor scenes, most of the time I will be arranged in a restaurant by the sea to edit while watching them shooting from a distance. This is an exceptional experience. During the shoot, Mui was on the camera, and the producer Ming Jin would be watching the monitor. If I was free, I would find a seat near the monitor to help check if there are any minor issues like mistakes and continuity. Having the editor working on set is not a common scenario, but I enjoy being a sideliner, and a listener when the director and crew members are working under a lot of pressure. At that time, Mui and we were living in the same homestay. We stayed together after wrapping up every day. For the rest of the day, Mui and I would watch the cuts in the living room. Sometimes she even asked me to show it to her, and let me rest, and she watched it in the living room for hours.

The post-production part of editing was started from early September until early January. That was another stage of the creative process. We had an assembly cut soon after the film was shot. However, there is a difference between the assembly cut and the first cut. When I was editing the assembly cut, I did not emphasize the character's emotion. I just combined the usable takes according to the script. Starting from the first cut, the perspective of every scene, the control amount of the information, the choices of performances, need to be slowly rebuilt from the first shot.

Mui is the director who controls me the least. She would let me edit a version freely, then she would come to my home and watch the film together. She would ask me why I chose to cut in a certain way and the ideas behind it. At the same time, I would also ask her the reasons behind the specific plot or discuss some other possibilities in editing.

Text notes are also one of our communication methods. The text notes shown in the picture above are Mui's handwritten notes during our very first conversation. I love the handwriting text that someone gave to me. At that time, I knew I had to keep it properly. Ha-ha.

At this stage, I needed to let go of a lot of my original ideas. For example, the role of Master Loh. In the original setting in the script, I imagined he is a master incognito in the brotherhood, like Ip Man. But when I was looking at his footage, I was thinking: "Why is Master Loh so funny?". At the beginning, I wanted to cut Master Loh into what I wanted. Therefore, I took out all the performances that I didn't want, and cut them in a montage way, but the results were not satisfied, and some plots were too omitted. At that moment, I told Mui about my troubles. Then Mui told me that James had adjusted his characters during the performance. He added the element of ‘cries wine and sells vinegar’ in this character, but at the same time this character also knows real kung-fu, not exactly a liar. Then I realised I didn't understand James' performance before Mui’s explanation! At the end, I re-adjusted the editing for this character. It has the taste of a master, but also makes people wonder what his real identity is. Like this the character will become more interesting.

From this one character to the entire film's structure, I had gone through a similar breakdown and refining process. Fortunately, Mui gave me enough time to do it. Every time we cut a new version, we let that version ‘rest’ for a while, so it allowed us to see it with fresh eyes and maintain our objectivity as an audience. When we could not meet in person due to the worse pandemic situation in Malaysia, we continued to communicate online. After editing the fourth version, I shared the work files with Mui, and she was able to adjust the workspace directly. Then I polished it up after she responded to my work. After that, we released the completed version to a few producers to watch and collect their opinions. Finally, we have the final cut after the sixth version.

4. What was the biggest challenge you faced during editing?

For me, it is my life experience.

During my university years, I have been trained and absorbed different film editing techniques such as horror, comedy, and emotion. I showed my works to my mentor (Mr. Liao) and he discussed my problems cut by cut. At that time, I thought it was torturing… haha. But now I realize how precious that experience was. I used to sign up for online courses to learn about the technique of action film editing. In my opinion, you can practice the skills of sensibility and rhythm control as all these are just techniques. However, you have to "understand" if you wish to express the film.

This is related to “unleashing your own imaginations” mentioned in the previous question. Once you “understand” it, you will not be limited in those “imaginations”. Then you could make your style of a film without imitating others' work. This is like being a human, we might not really know where we will reach, but we must know the reason behind every step, what we do, and how we feel. Barbarian Invasion has several layers of narrative. The expression of the story keeps changing along with the development of the story. My experience might be limited, in the future maybe I could express it more deliberately… but I still feel lucky to have the opportunity to edit this film.

5. Any other things you would like to talk about?

Let’s talk about music. I like the music of this film personally. Mui and I began to invite the musician, Kamal Sabran to join after the second or third edited version. Kamal’s music has elevated the film to another level. I admire the music that complements and integrates with other elements in the film!